Ask the Flooring Expert

Q: We have a Mannington m-lock 8mm Canterbury oak floor installed 2-1/2 years ago in Venice, FL (not by you). The panels are raising at the seams (not buckling) randomly across the floor. Underlayment is a plastic-backed foam on concrete slab. I lifted a section, and there is no evidence of water under the floor. We have maintained the floor using composite floor cleaner per instructions. It appears the proper space is provided at the wall edges. What can cause failure at the seams in this fashion? Could it be expansion pressure? Mfg defect? The home builder, installer and manufacturer are all claiming no-fault. Our upgrade cost above carpet was $14.00 per square foot, and we feel we should have a durable floor at $150 to $200 per square yard. Any info you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Sanford Y.

A: A majority of the time when issue like this occur it is due to some moisture issue. I spoke with Tad A., Director of iFLOOR.com's Installation Program, and my good friend Gene D. who both mentioned that this is a common occurrence when too much liquid cleaner is being used without using a dry towel or dry mop afterward to make sure no liquid is left standing.

This is only one reason though, as other causes could be a pet leaving their mark, so to speak, or excessive moisture in the air within the home.

On some follow-up I got a great bit of information from San about his subfloor and the install along with some pictures. He also mentioned:

"We have the "tubes-in-the-walls" pest control from Home Team Pest Defense. Over the past 2-1/2 years they have injected approximately 24 gallons of nasty pest control chemicals into the walls of our house. The construction configuration is concrete block walls on a slab, with furring strips and dry wall. With the baseboard/quarter-round installation and a gap for the flooring, the chemicals can very easily migrate beneath the floor. My guess is that one or more of the chemicals is attacking the laminate where the fumigants seep up through the seams.

This could be the case, which would relate back to a moisture issue.

The best suggestion is to either 1) hire a licensed inspector to come out and examine the floor to determine the cause (iFLOOR.com uses a 3rd party service to help our customers) or 2) get a long pin tester and test the moisture at the seams of the floor since there was a good deal of testing done with the sub floor.

Here you will see the underlayment and moisture barrier installed. Neither of which appear to have moisture issues happening below the floor.

Here are a couple of pictures where you can see the problem Sanford is describing.

Q: I recently had Armstrong tile laid over old tile. Approx 10 to 20 percent of the tiles raised up on the corners and are now crumbling on those corners

Flo

Here you can see some of the tiles in question from the pictures Flo sent in. Notice the large area of damage in this photo.




Here you can see the tile raising away at the seam.




In this picture you can see both a damaged corner and the seams raising up.

A: After talking to Flo a bit and with some great insight from Gene D., we figured out the problem to this dilemma. This self-adhesive vinyl tile was installed over an older embossed tile. She had the tile installed by her grandson after purchasing her tile from local Lowe's stores.

With how the self-adhesive tiles are made, they rarely adhere well to any surface that is not perfectly flat and well prepared. Vinyl tile especially is very fragile until it is well adhered to a subfloor, which is why Flo encountered the crumbling corners on her tiles. The embossed tile makes for a difficult surface to adhere to, which is why the seams were raising. Although Flo's grandson rolled the floor, the roller he used was not a 100 lbs. roller, which is what a job like this calls for.

Luckily, Flo contacted Lowe's and they offered to supply enough new flooring to replace all of her damaged tiles along with any adhesive she would need to complete this job. Both Gene and I applaud Lowe's for this great customer service to help Flo out, as it can be very rare to get such from a big box store.

Here's a few tips for an installation of vinyl tile:

• Make sure your subfloor is clean and flat. If you're installing over a tile surface similar to Flo's, make sure to use a good adhesive or contact cement.


• Gene suggested 2 coats of contact cement on the subfloor and one layer on the back of the vinyl tile over this to ensure a great bond.


• After installing the tile, use a 100 lbs. roller once per hour to ensure the floor stays flat and adheres properly.


• Finally, remember that these types of tile tend to be somewhat fragile until fully installed, so take caution until the floor is installed and the adhesive is cured.

Q: Mr. Simonson -

Sincerely,
Jim K

Jim was forwarded my way by Steve to make sure we could get the think tank together to give the best advice. Now I have had a good string of emails back and forth with Jim getting some information. Here is the ground work information we have:

Jim has this installed over a plywood subfloor using Sound Solution Vapor Bloc (foam) underlayment which is the best underlayment sold by Floor & Décor.

The common problems for a floor raising up seem to be null here. Normally this problem is a moisture issue, but the wood subfloor and underlayment type makes this extremely unlikely.
After speaking with Jim, he gave me a bit more info from his installer:

Yeah, I don't think that it is a moisture issue either. Plus, it was just installed earlier this month. The store has already sent out an inspector who will turn out a report in a couple of weeks (he is looking at install procedures, tolerance, moisture, etc.), so any information you can pass along to me would be great. I happen to think that it was poor product quality and that my installer is correct (incorrect milling). Instead of it clicking together easily like it was supposed to, most of the pieces had to be forced/hit into place with a hitting block.

Jim sent along a few pictures to show us exactly what was going on. As you can see below, the floor raises up in various areas.

A: By looking at the pictures poor milling is a possibility here. I talked briefly with Steve via email as he wanted to make sure you were being taken care of and he mentioned something that is good to note here:

"My guess is that Floor and Décor sold them seconds that they bought at auction from floors today. That was also discussed on the blog to be careful of these kinds of "opportunity" buys."

I tried to find a similar Armstrong product, but had no luck, so my guess is that Steve's hunch is right. This being said, I would contact a licensed inspector and have him come out, hopefully on a day your installer will be available, in order to get a definitive answer on your situation. Without looking at the floor directly myself, I can't give you a defined "here's the problem..." statement, but the poor milling idea is strong, especially when viewing your photos.

Make sure you keep on the store's tail about this, to ensure they don't let you slip through the cracks. No matter how good a company is, this can happen from time to time (we're all human in the end). Also, make sure if they want any inspectors to come out that these are third party so that there is no worry of bias.

End Result: Sometimes cases truly do require an inspector to ensure, especially when manufacturer defect (such as poor milling) comes into question. No matter how likely it may seem to be one problem, without seeing the site first hand its impossible to give a definitive answer, which is why Jim is ensuring the inspection done is in good detail (and hopefully ends in his favor and is similar to our hunch).