Ask the Flooring Expert

Q: We had over 2300 square feet of hardwood installed by our builder in December of 2003. We have been fighting with our builder since then due to cracking issues, and water damage issues, due to building. We had some boards replaced and 3 inspections by builder funded inspectors. Each inspection came back in the builders favor because they didn't meet the 5% minimum replacement clause. At the time since two rooms were already slated to be replaced and they weren't added in the total square footage. This very well could have pushed us well over the 5% minimum. One of the inspectors even went so far as to say no one should live this way, with flooring like this for as long as we had to. Then his report came back exactly the same as the second report, even the same wording. He never indicated that there wasn't a problem with the flooring. The biggest problem is each came in with the expectation that the job was small. We have approximately 2400 square feet of hardwood flooring, mostly on the main level and the upper hallway. The kitchen is tile. One inspector even went so far as to say he wasn't qualified to approve a job of this size.

We are in the process of hiring a civil engineer for their expertise and the ability of their sitings to hold up in court. Our plan is to take it as far as we can go. We have had 3 inspections on our own from flooring companies that agree with our opinion that there is something wrong with the wood. Our largest problem is getting them to write a report with the particulars. Each one deals with Bruce / Armstrong flooring as a flooring provider and are hesitant to create a supplier issue with a company so large. This is why we are hiring a certified inspector. Our builder is pressuring us to sign a paper agreeing to the work they specify which does not match up to the complaints we have. They send each letter by certified mail with a response date on it. We are frustrated and concerned since we spent so much money having the hardwoods upgraded in the first place. Each time they send a letter they leave out additional work left to be done. Our hardwoods are cracking, not just a little at the edges, but huge cracks down the center. This is not normal! We have had Bruce hardwoods for over 10 years in our prior home and never had these problems. With our first inspection the inspector was marking boards to be replaced with a sharpie in red, I asked him to tape the boards instead because I wasn't sure when they would be out to do the work. The Bruce hardwood inspector was marking boards that have cracks that are minimal compared to the ones I am complaining about. I have been diligent in marking only board that exceed the cracking from the initial report. Now those initial cracks they say are within the tolerance level. This was not the case during the first inspection. Our builder thinks we are trying to extend our warranty, this is not the case. The floors are under their own warranty and far exceed the minimum for replacement. I know we are heading for arbitration with our builder as well as the installers and Bruce themselves. The company where the wood came from even went so far as to install two different lots in the same room at the same time, the builders had me take pictures for them so they could assign the blame to them, the color differentiation was that great. Now all is stalled, and no one will respond to us. They blame us for stalling and all they are doing is creating a time reference that would indicate just this. They are angry we have copies of work orders where it's stated that defective boards were installed and need to be removed. Now the builders refuse to acknowledge these at all. Since this has been going on for 2-3 years we are at a loss as to what to do after the civil engineer examines our home.

Kathy

A: Kathy, I'd first like to say that I personally can not offer advice in the realm of what to do legally at this point. What I can do is offer some advice as to a few actions I would take.

Based on the issue you describe with cracking boards, This leads me to question two very important things. As a preface, cracking boards is most commonly cause by a moisture related issue. Since Bruce's Kennedale Strip is a solid hardwood, I'm lead to wonder if proper acclimation time was allowed. Solid hardwood floors should be acclimated longer than any other floor and I would personally suggest letting them sit in the room to be installed in for a week or longer just to ensure the wood gets plenty of time to acclimate. If the floor was not given proper time to acclimate, its own natural moisture content compared to the moisture content of your subfloor could cause this. Secondly, without knowing the environment for your home (what temperature and humidity it stays at, climate control used, etc.), I question how much of an expansion gap was left for the floors.

In regards to the water damage issues, I question how this water got to the floor. Also, where your floor has been installed is a key concern along with how it was installed. (like if this home is split level, has a concrete subfloor, etc.)

What duties beyond the floor was your builder responsible for? Was there anything that was needed to be done to the subfloor or is the subfloor new? (I know, I've got a lot of questions, but without seeing the floor its all I can do)

You also mention some flooring companies inspecting the floor. I will warn you, if these people are from local flooring retailers, their observations or opinions can not be taken as expert opinion. Although I have faith in the immense knowledge the folks who work in the stores here at iFLOOR.com have, they can not speak for issues in a floor to a legal level like a certified inspector.

Here is what I would suggest doing. Get a certified third party inspector to come out and look over the floor. Make sure you verify the inspector's qualifications. Make sure to have plenty of photos taken of the floor and present any documentation you have for the floor to the inspector to ensure they have plenty of information.

From this point, I would then get any other area of the home inspected by an appropriate inspector to ensure any other work done is up to code and satisfactory. Should this go to a legal standpoint, at that time you would want to consult an appropriate legal professional (sadly, I'm not one) to further your case.

The issue you may run into is that from a product claim perspective, this claim will most likely be denied. The reason being that a moisture issue is not a product defect and by that reason, the product can be determined to be working to its expectations.

Follow-up: I've spoken back and forth with Kathy over a few emails and even our very own Steve Simonson has pitched in a few bits of advice.

Steve suggested that it is good practice to file a product claim with Bruce, regardless of how the damage was caused. In the mean time, the civil engineer that will be inspecting will be key. Ensuring the c.e. takes plenty of time to inspect the home and documents all of the damages. Also, asking the c.e. questions as to what actions should be taken is a good idea. I suggested asking if any other inspectors should be brought out and what advice the c.e. has to proceed. Also, the c.e. should know the local laws a bit better and should be able to give some insight on that subject.

In the end, we hope the best for Kathy as this is one of the few stories where a beautiful floor goes bad, and hopefully Kathy can get everything back to being great looking. Below are several pictures sent to me by Kathy to show the various damages that have occurred.

In the above photos you can see a couple different cracks from the moisture damage to Kathy's floor.

In the below photo you can see how beautiful this floor would be without damage to it. (and then you can see the tape marked areas with how spread the damage is)

Q: We purchased a new home in August 2006. The builder installed pine flooring throughout out house. We realize that pine is quite soft and expected to have many scratches. Overall, we were satisfied with the way it came out, and it seems to be holding up quite well. However, we've been having a few issues with certain areas.

Sincerely,
Deb

A: A very important thing to keep in mind is that wood is a natural product and movement (expansion and contraction) from heat/cold and moisture in a home is most common in solid products like your Pine flooring. The questions I would ask is what temperature is your house kept at throughout the year? Does it remain the same or does it change based on season? Also, you might want to look into having the relative humidity of the air in your home. If it is too dry this can cause gapping and the solution is to get a humidifier to bring the moisture level of your home up to around 35-40%. Normally wood floors are best in the same environment best for your average person, around 63-65 degrees Fahrenheit and around 40% moisture in the air.

With your second issue in regards to the finish, the most important things to keep in mind is to use furniture cups on all of your furniture. You should be able to find cups similar to your plastic one, but with felt pads for the chairs. Beyond that it could be that the site finished used is not as tough as some as the others available. The finish is the only thing to put in question here, as the hardness of the floor won't help/hurt the durability of the finish. The number of coats can help here, but the actual finish used is very important. The rule of thumb for site finishing is to lay multiple thinner coats because this will allow for a stronger finish in the end.

What you might want to look into is getting your floor re-screened. This process involves buffing the top layer of the finish (roughing it up mildly) then applying new layers of finish. Should you choose to go this route, I would use either Bona's Traffic finish or Glitsa's Infinity II.

In regards to the cracking noise you are hearing, this is usually caused when the boards of your subfloor is not fully anchored to the joists below. This movement will cause creaks etc. Your only options to repair this would be to either remove the flooring then screw the subfloor area down to the joist, or to work from under the joist where the ceiling is finished. Either of these will be a pain because your removing finished areas.

You could try hiring a third party inspector to come out and view you floor to determine if there is anything that can be done or determine if your builder needs to fix things because they were done improperly.

Q: I recently had Armstrong tile laid over old tile. Approx 10 to 20 percent of the tiles raised up on the corners and are now crumbling on those corners

Flo

Here you can see some of the tiles in question from the pictures Flo sent in. Notice the large area of damage in this photo.




Here you can see the tile raising away at the seam.




In this picture you can see both a damaged corner and the seams raising up.

A: After talking to Flo a bit and with some great insight from Gene D., we figured out the problem to this dilemma. This self-adhesive vinyl tile was installed over an older embossed tile. She had the tile installed by her grandson after purchasing her tile from local Lowe's stores.

With how the self-adhesive tiles are made, they rarely adhere well to any surface that is not perfectly flat and well prepared. Vinyl tile especially is very fragile until it is well adhered to a subfloor, which is why Flo encountered the crumbling corners on her tiles. The embossed tile makes for a difficult surface to adhere to, which is why the seams were raising. Although Flo's grandson rolled the floor, the roller he used was not a 100 lbs. roller, which is what a job like this calls for.

Luckily, Flo contacted Lowe's and they offered to supply enough new flooring to replace all of her damaged tiles along with any adhesive she would need to complete this job. Both Gene and I applaud Lowe's for this great customer service to help Flo out, as it can be very rare to get such from a big box store.

Here's a few tips for an installation of vinyl tile:

• Make sure your subfloor is clean and flat. If you're installing over a tile surface similar to Flo's, make sure to use a good adhesive or contact cement.


• Gene suggested 2 coats of contact cement on the subfloor and one layer on the back of the vinyl tile over this to ensure a great bond.


• After installing the tile, use a 100 lbs. roller once per hour to ensure the floor stays flat and adheres properly.


• Finally, remember that these types of tile tend to be somewhat fragile until fully installed, so take caution until the floor is installed and the adhesive is cured.

Q: We are currently having engineered wood floors from Anderson installed in our house. We are having them glued down to a concrete subfloor that has been floated to ensure smoothness… Everything seems to be in great shape but we started noticing minor gaps between boards – both side to side and end to end. These are not large gaps – you can’t even fit a dime or a penny into them, but they still are there. The installation crew has suggested that they are going to use wood filler to fill in these gaps.

Scott F.
Houston, TX (humidity capital of the US)

A: Before you have them fill the gaps there are a few things I would look into. First of all, the gaps you are describing are well within the standards for hardwood floors. What I would do is test the relative humidity to see how much moisture is in the air of your home. Usually you want the humidity right around 50% (normal comfortable level for humans like you and me). When you begin to deviate away from 50% relative humidity you will encounter movement in the floor. I am guessing your home is climate controlled with A/C or some form of cooling during the summer, what could be occurring is the air could be too dry, which is the most common cause of gapping as the boards will shrink some.

Also, acclimation is a big thing here, if your floor was acclimated for a week or more than this is likely a moisture issue. If your floor was not acclimated, what is most likely occurring is your floor is adjusting to its new environment and thus, contracting (contraction is the cause of gapping) Here's what you can do, if the air is too dry, get a humidifier to run to get the humidity back to 50%. If its too humid, get a dehumidifier to bring it back down (though this is likely not the case.) Give the wood some time to re-acclimate when you make this change before using a filler.

Temperature is another factor to keep in mind. Strive to keep your home around 65 degrees Farenheit throughout the year as this will prevent the floor from expanding and contracting due to temperature shifts in your home. Engineered floors are more resistant to expansion and contraction from temperature because of the cross-ply lamination techniques used to make them, but as we well know wood and water do NOT mix, so again my bet is on a humidity issue here.

Using filler is fairly common in the flooring industry, especially when spills are a concern. So if your home's climate is right where it should be, then filler will work well and you should have little worry about further movement in your floor, but keep in mind, climate is key to ensuring your floor does not move any further.

CJ wrote back to get a bit more help with his problem. The original advice I gave him with his Westhollow Cork Problem involved the two most common problems for his issue: using too much cleaner or having an uneven subfloor. CJ sent a follow up with some pictures in hopes we could get a better idea of what is going on.

Q: Hopefully you can see the gaps in the floor, it is only happening in
these places. The gap is probably about 1/8 to 1/4 inch wide and one of the
boards sticks up slightly higher than the other. Any suggestions would be
appreciated.

Thanks
CJ

A: Unfortunately its hard to tell what precisely is going on. I sat down with Tad Amell, who is our Director of Installation and an old school pro when it comes to flooring. He mentioned one thing that I want you to keep in mind as I discuss what we see "without being there, we can only speculate. The pictures allow for a good view, but the problem itself is hard to determine."

Here's what we saw. The first thing we noticed is that in some places the tiles are not staggered as much as they should be. With cork, the rows should be staggered roughly 1/3 the length of the board. What this means is that by being less staggered than the norm, the strength of the locking mechanism is weaker than desired and can make it more likely for a problem to occur, but it will not directly cause the problem you are encountering. One thing Tad mentioned here is that the raising near the corner of the wall in the first photo could be caused if someone was moving quickly across the floor and placed too much pressure (such as a jump) to one part of a nearby tile, which could disengage the lock some and raise it up.

Also, near some of the raised areas, we saw a bit of streaking that looks like it is from cleaning. This could indicate a cleaned spill or too much cleaner like I had mentioned. However, this could also occur from your home's lighting since this is only a photo. So we can't instantly say "there's the problem."

In the third photo it looks like your floor runs up to some cabinetry or something similar. My question here is if this was placed over the top of the floor or not. If so this can hold a few planks in place while allowing others to move (as they should move some being a floating floor), which can also lead to something similar to what is happening, but again not an instant "there it is."

Now I do have a tip that might help here. One way to try to get the planks back down would be to clean out the gap (vacuum should work best here, no liquid cleaners) then apply pressure to engage the locks back to normal. If it resists a bit to this, do not push too hard as you do not want to break the locking mechanism.

The final option here would be to have a licensed inspector come out to take a look at the floor and determine the cause of the problem. Being on site would give all the information needed to crack the case here.

Q: I purchased bamboo flooring from ifloor and had an installer lay the floors down. Unfortunately, he left pretty large gaps between some of the sections and it is very noticeable. Is there anything that can be used to fill the gaps? They are not wide enough for pieces of board, but too large for something like glue.

thanks!
Jill

I followed up with Jill a bit to get some extra help, here is what I asked:

For some basics, if you can at least tell me how wide the gap is (if its 2 or more credit cards in width this could cause a bit of worry). Also are these gaps around the entirety of the planks or only in specific spots (ends only or only certain areas of the home)?

Reply: There are two cracks which are definitely wider than two credit cards. They are both in the middle of the floor of the rooms -- where the installer stopped and then picked up working later. With the black spot, he had scratched the floor, and then tried to sand it (eek) a bit and then, I think, put a sealer over that perhaps? He was trying to hide the scratch and now it looks much worse.

Any thoughts so far?

Thanks again
Jill

A: I am pretty dang sure I know what’s going on with the scratch. Most likely, your installer used a high grit sand paper (260-280 grit) to sand the scratch. To the touch it will feel smooth, but you are still abrading the floor, which means there are small areas where dirt or particulates can accumulate. More than likely, he used a cleaner and not an actual seal or layer of finish in that area, so the particulates have gathered and caused the discolored spot.

Now, there are two fixes to this problem. Depending on the size of this spot you can either mask off the surrounding area using painters tape, then sand lightly to remove the debris and add a bit of refresher (smaller spots for this scenario as it will have a different sheen than the rest of the floor) or replace the board entirely with another piece of bamboo flooring (if you have any spare flooring this would be great, as it should be acclimated to your home).

As far as the gaps go, more than likely your floor was not given enough acclimation time (let me know if you know otherwise though). Typically this problem occurs when a floor is installed before fully acclimating to a home and excess moisture in the floor is released as it dries to a similar moisture level of your home’s subfloor. This causes the boards to shrink ever so slightly and makes the gapping prevalent. How do I fix this? Good question! What you will want to do is test the moisture content of the bamboo itself, if its less than 6-8% than usually you can run a humidifier in your home to restore enough moisture to the air, which will in turn be absorbed by the bamboo, and remove some of the gapping as the floor expands slightly.

Wood flooring is much like you and I in a sense, it lives best in a climate of 65 degrees or so Fahrenheit with relative humidity (moisture in the air) of 30-40%. If your home has less moisture than this, then the flooring will naturally dry out some and shrink. If it has more moisture, it will expand and possibly swell.

Q: I've been reading many of the questions/answers in this column and I have an idea about the cause of our problem, but here goes...

Thank you.
Kathleen
Catawissa, PA

A: Your guess here is on par with what is most likely occurring. Typically with any floating floor if a very heavy object such as cabinetry is installed on the floor, usually at an edge, it will cause the floor to shift, similar to a teeter-totter with weight only on one side. Occasionally this will come from a combination of slight differences in the subfloor along with weight distribution along the edges of a floor.

One way to try to relieve this pressure would be to cut a relief into the floor along the cabinetry line. Essentially this will make a small platform of flooring for the cabinets and disconnect the rest of the floor from the floor underneath the heavier objects. Over a few days, the gapping you are experiencing should slowly revert back to the floor being as it was when it was installed.

Q: I installed bamboo engineered click flooring on my garage floor that was converted to a media room. Floor wasn't completely flat in a couple of spots...there is a cushion of air that you feel about 2'x3' in diameter and about 2' from the edge of the floor. would a humidifier help the floor conform to the concrete, maybe some weight on that area? I also think i might have installed a couple of warped boards...only about 2 of them...my end gaps keep appearing after the floor is walked on. thanks for any help.

A: Before we get into the problem occurring let me first stress that you do NOT use a humidifier in this room. Adding moisture to the floor will cause it to expand and most likely begin to buckle or warp if it absorbs too much water, getting above about 8-9% moisture content. Also, I would not suggest putting weight on the floor sitting over this valley in your subfloor.

The right way to fix this problem would be to remove planks of flooring (which is much easier since it is a click) until you uncover the 2'x3' valley in your subfloor. Then, level this area out using a self-leveling compound. Once this compound has cured, reinstall the bamboo planks.

The gap you are encountering is happening because the floor is flexing down into the cushion of air you describe. This area is larger and deep enough to cause enough movement when weight is applied to the floor that it is flexing and creating this gap. The only way to actually fix this problem would be to fix the subfloor by leveling it out, or to get a shimming material into the valley to help support the floor.

Here are a couple of photos that were sent a long to illustrate the gap that is happening:
In this photo you can see the gap in the center and the substrate below the finished bamboo surface.

Here in this photo you can see where the floor is flexing over the valley in the subfloor being described. The two lighter colored planks below and to the right of the gap can be seen slightly lower than the rest of the floor.

Q: We had a cork floor installed 3 years ago and each winter the ends pull apart and a gap of 1/8 to 1/4" is evident. I've had the installer out and the company who manufactured the product out to view. Each blames the other for the problem. I'm tired of the conflict and just want to know what I can do to solve the problem of this gapping. In the summer the gap lessons but does not completely close. Is there anything I can do?

A: Typically gapping like this occurs when the flooring is not properly acclimated before installation; however, since you mention this specifically occurs during winter it makes me think one of two things is happening. If this floor was glued down, this could be a result of poor acclimation time. If this is a floating floor, most likely what you are looking at is a problem with humidity.

When flooring shrinks only at the ends it is typically a result of the relative humidity in your home becoming to dry. As the air dries out, some of the natural moisture in the flooring escapes as well, causing this type of gapping. This is a common cause for gaps like this, which is usually faulted to the installer as it is the installers responsibility to properly acclimate any flooring before installation.

Another cause to gaps like this would be planks that having a milling error or are not square. Although this is a problem in the product, it is up to the installer to detect these defects before installation, which is in part why the standard for waste in flooring is 5-10%, as there will be occasional milling errors along side cuts that are made to fit the installation.

In the end here your best bet would be to contact a certified, third party inspector to come out and determine the problem with your floor. This will help determine whom is truly at fault and stop the finger pointing. Based on your description, my guess here is that it is the fault of the installer, but keep in mind that without being on the site myself, it is impossible to give a definitive answer as to the precise problem.

Here is a tip for helping to reduce this gapping some. As long as your home is climate controlled and remains at roughly the same temperature all year, get a gauge to test the humidity in the air of you home. If this humidity deviates much during the change in seasons from around 40-50% then an easy fix here would be to run a humidifier during the winter to restore humidity to the environment and prevent this gapping from occurring.

Q: My husband and I recently installed the laminate hardwood look snap-together type flooring according to mfg instructions, in our kitchen. We didn't lay a subfloor because our floor was fairly level, I don't want to say perfect, because nothing is perfect, but not bad.

Now we are noticing spots through the kitchen where it actually feels like the joints are pulling apart or the "tongue" side has broken. All joints were completely tight when first installed. Short of removing and starting over, is there anyway to fix this?

Thanks
Susan, Ohio

A: Typically when gaps occur it is because of one of a few reasons. Now, as long as you gave the laminate plenty of time to acclimate to your home, then this should not be a moisture problem. The most common cause of gapping is when flooring dries out and begins to contract.

Assuming that this is not the case, then it may be a matter of variations in the subfloor which are too great for your underlayment to account for. Underlayment can typically account for variations of 1/32" and some very high grade underlayments can account for more; however, anything beyond this needs to be leveled out. If you are feeling the floor flex a bit under your feet as you walk over it, then this is a low spot in your subfloor which is causing the floor itself to move well beyond tolerances, and thus can be slowly breaking down the locking system.

To determine the problem, first test the moisture in your floor. This can be done using a simple moisture tester purchased at a local home improvement store for around $25. Also, test the relative humidity in the air of your home. You should have a moisture content in the flooring of between 5-7% and a relative humidity somewhere between 40-50%. If this is not the case, your problem is moisture and gapping typically means it is too dry, so you will need to get a humidifier and run it to restore moisture into the environment.

If the moisture readings check out, then this is most likely a movement issue. This will mean removing flooring to get to the damaged areas, then checking the subfloor height. If there is a dip beyond 1/16" or so, you absolutely will need to level out the subfloor. Also, make sure the underlayment you are using is sufficient and that the floor itself is not moving too much when walked over. Keep in mind tolerance is 1/32" of movement.